Amy Porterfield (00:00):

My biggest, proudest moment is the moment I woke up and said, "I will burn it down because I knew I could build it back better."

Mike Michalowicz (00:06):

I love that.

Amy Porterfield (00:07):

And every entrepreneur feels as though we can't figure it out sometimes, or it's too hard, or it's heavy, but that doesn't mean we are not competent. We know the best we know ourselves. Just trust yourself.

Mike Michalowicz (00:20):

The biggest names in business didn't start out that way. These are the unfiltered stories of entrepreneurs who turned small business into big success and transformed themselves along the way. Because success isn't just about what you build, it's who you become. I'm Mike Michalowicz, and this is Becoming Self Made a podcast from Relay. And today I'm speaking with Amy Porterfield, online marketing expert and host of The Amy Porterfield Show.

(00:48):

I am so happy you are watching this episode. I just sat down with Amy Porterfield, and she shared mind-blowing insights because she shared how her past determined her future. I found it fascinating that so many of us are trying to reconcile our childhood and our past, that so many of us are trying to resolve problems that we've experienced through our businesses, because ultimately our business is an expression of ourselves.

(01:16):

You're going to learn so much in this episode, and I think you're going to see that your journey so far has brought you to a point where you can have a business that's wildly successful if you just appreciate your journey. I have been looking forward to this interview forever. I'm with Amy Porterfield. We go back now about three years.

Amy Porterfield (01:35):

Yes.

Mike Michalowicz (01:36):

I want to start off with an exercise called The Lifeline, and I was happy to hear that you've never heard of this before.

Amy Porterfield (01:40):

Never heard of this.

Mike Michalowicz (01:41):

I'm going to start it, and then you're going to complete it. So, this represents your life, this Amy Porterfield life, and we're going to do an increments of this is when you're born. This is 5, 10, 15 years, 20 of your life until your current age. This is the measurement of the high points, high, low, and I just want you to put in each 5-year period, reflect on that real quickly, and then say, "Oh, it was a high point." Just give me the high points and low points over your life.

Amy Porterfield (02:14):

So, if we go zero to five, all good. So, do I do a little X?

Mike Michalowicz (02:19):

Yeah. Perfect.

Amy Porterfield (02:21):

So, all good. Once around 10, getting a little awkward.

Mike Michalowicz (02:26):

Just write the most awkward thing that happened.

Amy Porterfield (02:28):

So, I've always battled with my weight, so I was just like a heavier kid.

Mike Michalowicz (02:34):

Did you get made fun of in school?

Amy Porterfield (02:34):

Yes. That thing. Not brutally, but I was very aware of it. And then by 15, cheerleader, high point, lots of fun. And then going into 20, went to college, had a great time. Loved it. Had a really jerky boyfriend though, so I'll just put it in the middle. And then, let's see here. So, now we're in 2025, I was working in publishing at the time, so I was young. I was in Santa Barbara. I went to UC, Santa Barbara, so had a great time. Did a little in sales a little bit, so learned how to for people to say no to me a million times. So, that was good, but then here's where things got interesting.

(03:16):

So, 25 to 30, that's when I worked for Tony Robbins, huge high point. Learned everything about entrepreneurship. I was behind the scenes, but he was on stage, so I got to do the production stuff and content stuff, so super fun. And then 30 to 40 is when I started my own business. So, 30 to 35, low point. That was rough. Starting and being an entrepreneur was rough. Then things started to take shape. Hit my first million between 30 and 35 and 40, all that good. And now, I'm 48, so I'll just say between 40 and 45, total high points.

Mike Michalowicz (03:52):

Total high points. So, let me hold this. Now, we're going to reflect on some of the elements. So, you're reflecting here, and you're picked on by kids. It's actually interesting. The only one you put a word on was here.

Amy Porterfield (04:00):

I know.

Mike Michalowicz (04:01):

You're heavier at this time, and kids made fun of you.

Amy Porterfield (04:04):

Or it wasn't like major bullying, but some boys said things, but I was very aware I looked different from everybody else. I was always just a bigger girl, but that I've taken with me throughout my whole life.

Mike Michalowicz (04:17):

Dude, I'm so with you. So, I was the skinny kid, like, oh gosh, we should have hung out together. Same thing, I was made fun of. I remember Sarah McMickle.

Amy Porterfield (04:26):

Damn, Sarah.

Mike Michalowicz (04:27):

Who was your person that picked on?

Amy Porterfield (04:28):

Her name was Christine, and she just wouldn't stop.

Mike Michalowicz (04:31):

Wouldn't stop?

Amy Porterfield (04:32):

Yes. I wasn't really outgoing. I'm an introvert, and I think maybe it started with that. My dad was really hard on my mom for her weight, so I saw that. So, I saw men being mean to women about weight, so that got in my head a little bit, and then I didn't mention this, but my parents divorced when I was 18 and went to college. And so, that was a very low point that I didn't even realize my parents had problems till that all came about.

Mike Michalowicz (04:57):

I wonder when it comes to becoming self-made, if that pain you went through defines you today?

Amy Porterfield (05:04):

Absolutely.

Mike Michalowicz (05:05):

One thing I know, so I was doing tons of research on you, and I go back to Anthony Robbins, you're in the conference room, you're the note taker, which sounds very misogynistic by the way.

Amy Porterfield (05:14):

Very, right?

Mike Michalowicz (05:15):

So, you're secretary, effectively?

Amy Porterfield (05:17):

I was director of content, but I was brought into this big meeting with all these men talking about online marketing, and I was asked to take notes at a different table.

Mike Michalowicz (05:25):

At different table?

Amy Porterfield (05:26):

Yes.

Mike Michalowicz (05:27):

Does that harken back to this situation where you see your dad picking on your mom?

Amy Porterfield (05:31):

Yes. I've really had to repair my relationship with male figures because of... My dad is a great man, firefighter, blue collar to the bone, worked really hard, which is where I got my work ethic. But he was just hard on me, and I just never felt good enough. And so, I brought that into every job I had with a male boss. Always wanted to do my best, always wanted their attention, always wanted them to think I was doing a great job and wasn't Tony's fault, but I did it with Tony as well. So, moments that I'm sitting at the side table, I just wanted to be in the room, so it was just I did it.

Mike Michalowicz (06:07):

So, what was this low point here?

Amy Porterfield (06:08):

So, let's see here. Between 20 and 25, I was working just in sales and publishing, and I was drinking a lot. From 20 to 25, just got out of college, stayed in Santa Barbara, California, and just was in a crowd of just partiers. So, if I look back and regret a point in my life between 20 and 25, I think would be that. I was just a little wild.

Mike Michalowicz (06:33):

So, you're wild, but do you learn from that?

Amy Porterfield (06:34):

Absolutely. So, I learned to choose your friends wisely and get in the right circles.

Mike Michalowicz (06:41):

That's brilliant.

Amy Porterfield (06:42):

So, at the time they weren't making good choices, they weren't healthy. That's none of it. So, when I went into work for Tony Robbins, that's an environment of a lot of people that are striving and care deeply about their mental health, their physical health. So, it was such a contrast of choosing your friend group, not wisely, and wisely.

Mike Michalowicz (07:00):

That's fascinating. I want to go back to that a little bit because they say you're the summation of your five closest friends or something like that?

Amy Porterfield (07:08):

Yes. So true.

Mike Michalowicz (07:11):

So, you're the on high right now.

Amy Porterfield (07:12):

So, after that, I started my own business around 30. I think I was 31 officially when I started easing into it. And that was the hardest time of my life. The first two years of building my business, I got $40,000 in debt, had no idea what I was doing. I'm talking to the right guy.

Mike Michalowicz (07:28):

This is the part I want to dig into. I'm like, "This is..."

Amy Porterfield (07:30):

It was a disaster. And then once I got through that really first hard two years, is when things started to click and boom.

Mike Michalowicz (07:38):

It takes such courage to start a business. What is the trigger for you? How'd you get that confidence?

Amy Porterfield (07:45):

So, I did not have the confidence. What happened was when I was working for Tony Robbins, obviously, he talks a lot about entrepreneurship and building businesses, and I got that bug, but never was I raised to be an entrepreneur.

(07:58):

Again, my dad was blue collar, my mom was blue collar. And, however, when I used to play Barbies with my sister on the floor, I remember this vividly, and we'd be playing or whatnot, and he'd walk by and he'd say, "Girls, remember one day find a way to be your own boss." It made no sense at the time, but he would say this a lot, "Find a way to be your own boss."

Mike Michalowicz (08:17):

Interesting.

Amy Porterfield (08:18):

Interesting because he wasn't his own boss. Now, firefighters usually have two jobs. So, he had an air conditioning heating job of his own, but he had a boss as a firefighter. And so, I didn't ever remember that until I became my own boss. And I thought, "I remember when my dad said that over and over again."

Mike Michalowicz (08:32):

I remember listening to some of the stories, and he used to say to you, I think you were in second grade. And he'd say, "Listen more than you talk." It sounds like he had these lessons.

Amy Porterfield (08:41):

He did.

Mike Michalowicz (08:42):

Where do you think it emanated from him? Was he trying to correct his own child?

Amy Porterfield (08:46):

Absolutely. So, he came from a bad childhood. His dad was abusive. There wasn't a lot of love in the home. So, interesting enough, my dad has always been very hard on me, not anymore that were older, but very hard on me, never felt like I was good enough, and I was a little scared of my dad. He just had that big presence. However, there wasn't a day that went by that he didn't tell me he loved me. And so, he definitely was correcting some of the wrongs because his dad never said, "I loved you." So, it was a big thing for him, but he just wanted us to be the best.

Mike Michalowicz (09:16):

Do you feel part of the entrepreneurial journey is reconciling this past? You have such drive or all of your entrepreneurial drive, is because it's a reconciling of the past, or?

Amy Porterfield (09:26):

Absolutely. The unhealthy part is wanting my dad to be proud of me and wanting to prove myself. But the healthy part is really showing what I'm capable of. I really want to be my best self. And so, entrepreneurship, literally every day you get a chance to be your best self, or not, and you're the only driver of it. No one else is telling us what to do.

Mike Michalowicz (09:48):

What's your proudest moment of yourself? It's maybe not the outside, "I achieved a million dollars." It could be something that the outside I would see is small, but for you was massive. So, in your entrepreneurial journey...

Amy Porterfield (09:58):

Yes, and this one comes back to the issues I've had to deal with masculinity and all of that. I took a silent partner on in my company, and I had just hit the million-dollar mark. I was in business for maybe three years, and I was in a Mastermind with this guy, and I asked him for help on something and he said, "Better yet, why don't we partner together and I can help you build this business that I've already built for the record, and I could do this for you, I could do that."

(10:23):

And Mike, I'd love to tell you that it took me months to decide and really pros and cons. One sleep. And the next morning, I said yes to giving 50% of my company away to a man I hardly knew, but he saw potential in me. He thought that I could do even better.

Mike Michalowicz (10:39):

Of course, yeah.

Amy Porterfield (10:40):

So, he was younger than me, too. And so, over the next few years, he was a silent partner, where I was still the face of the business, and we crushed it. I went from 1 million to 5 million and beyond really quickly. And so, we did some amazing things together. And then one day I woke up and didn't even recognize myself, and I'm not being dramatic, every decision I let him make it. Every action item, I did, we would have meetings, he would leave with zero, I would leave with 20.

(11:07):

And anytime something wasn't going right, I would look to him, "What are we going to do?" I fully lost myself. And so, one day I woke up and thought, "This isn't going to work." And I went to him and I said, "I'm out. I want out." And he said, "This is going to be very bad for you." I said, "Why do you think so?" And he said, "Because of how you are with money." And so, because I had to buy him out. And so, essentially what he meant, and years later I realized he was right, I held onto money like I was going to lose it.

(11:32):

I white knuckled it. I was very careful to a detriment with my money, where one example, Facebook ads, when they're working, throw more money at him. I didn't have that mentality. I was like, "I'm so scared. I'm so scared." So, he just knew that about me, and I had to buy him out. And so, for a year, it was horrific. It was like a divorce.

(11:53):

We wouldn't talk or we would argue back and forth, back and forth. I refused to launch anything until we figured it out. So, the business started going down, and then one day I woke up and I thought, "I will burn this down before he will get any of it." Before I will say "I'm not going to get out of the partnership." I'll burn it down first. And so, the minute that happened, I was like, "I win. I win. Because he can't take anything from me. I'll burn it down."

(12:18):

And so, that's when we went into mediation, and I remember like it was yesterday calling my husband saying, "It's mine. I got my business back for a price that I felt good about."

Mike Michalowicz (12:27):

Good for you.

Amy Porterfield (12:28):

And so, from that minute on, at the time we were making about 5 million in the business, we went from 5 million to 16 million in 18 months, it exploded.

Mike Michalowicz (12:39):

Self-confident.

Amy Porterfield (12:42):

And so, it was everything to me.

Mike Michalowicz (12:42):

You said something that makes me think about so many entrepreneurs, and they devalue themselves. Particularly in their desperate moments. I'm curious on your perspective on those desperate stages, how people just give up on themselves, particularly when it comes to equity, and they devalue themselves. You work with tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs. Do you see them do this? And how do you overcome that?

Amy Porterfield (13:07):

I do. And when I literally devalued myself within 24 hours.

Mike Michalowicz (13:10):

I know.

Amy Porterfield (13:10):

I had built a million-dollar business, which only about 2% of female entrepreneurs are able to do that. And one man, and listen, I am not knocking on men. I love men and I've really... My relationship obviously started with my dad, so I've healed that. But in one 24 hours, I'm like, "Take it because I didn't believe I could do it on my own." And so, now I work with primarily female entrepreneurs, and I tell this story to say, "There is no reason you need to give it away."

(13:40):

And every entrepreneur feels as though we can't figure it out sometimes, or it's too hard, or it's heavy, but that doesn't mean we are not competent. So, it's a huge part of my messaging around that because you're right. And I remember Michael Hyatt, who's a very big mentor of mine. He stood up in a room one time, and he's like, "I just had this great launch, but every time I do, it feels like a fluke. It's just what a mistake, but how lucky am I?" And that's how I was living my life, that all of this success was just a fluke.

(14:10):

So, that moment when I realized I can burn it down and build it back better, I better teach other female entrepreneurs the same. So, it has become a little bit of my rally cry.

Mike Michalowicz (14:19):

So, let's get into some of the technical stuff when you built your business, it's an email marketing business. Is that what it's called?

Amy Porterfield (14:27):

No. I would say it is an online marketing business, but it's been focused on taking people's skill set and turning into digital courses. So, the email part just comes with it.

Mike Michalowicz (14:37):

So, you help people take their skill set, translate to digital course?

Amy Porterfield (14:41):

And be able to sell it online. Yeah.

Mike Michalowicz (14:43):

What are the key components to building that successfully? Not your business, their business, what do you teach them to...

Amy Porterfield (14:49):

So, when I help my students realize that they can have an online business, they can be their own boss, they can call the shots, the first thing they need to figure out is, well, what do they have to offer the world so that it will actually add value and make them money? So, the first thing I ask my students is, "Okay, where have you gotten results for yourself, for somebody else, a client, a customer, a friend, where you can teach how you got those results?"

(15:14):

But here's the great thing with someone just starting out, I always say, "You just need a 10% edge." You do not need to be leaps and bounds ahead of somebody that you teach. You just need to be 10% ahead to say, "This is how I did it," or "This is how I've taught it. Follow me." And the reason I say that is a lot of people don't get started because they don't think they're smart enough, ready enough, skilled enough. So, they take all this time-consuming and never get into action.

(15:38):

So, right away, all of my students have had success for themselves or help somebody else at one point or another. And so, that's where we start. And then the next thing we think about is, "Okay, so what problem can you solve?" You get really clear. And when you think about what problem can you solve, you start thinking about "Who do I want to solve that problem for?"

(15:55):

And so, these are the things that we start to think about. "What's your 10% edge?" No, you don't need any more learning. You already have it. "What problem can you solve?" "Who do you want to serve?" And the final question is, "What lights you up?" Because I've gone down a road where I've created courses just because I knew I could make money with it, and I hated it, and the courses never saw the light of day. So, what could you talk about morning, noon, and night, and it still energizes you? But here's the key. It doesn't have to be your end-all be-all. It doesn't need to be your passion in life.

(16:22):

That's another thing. I didn't start this business because I was passionate about teaching people how to create digital courses. I was passionate about being my own boss and not being told what to do, when to do, or how to do it. So, just find your passion and beyond, but what you create, you have to love it, but it doesn't have to be your end-all be-all.

Mike Michalowicz (16:40):

Is learning a way to avoid doing?

Amy Porterfield (16:42):

Absolutely. That's why I always say, "Action creates clarity." If you go through my program and just take 50% of it, but start taking action, you are my favorite student because you are getting going. I've had so many students say, "I didn't even get to the end of your course, but I was excited and I just did it, and this is what I got."

(16:59):

So, action creates clarity. I think we all get in this learning loop where we just think we need more and more. And if we get really serious, I think it comes down to "I'm not enough." I think many of us get in that trap. "I'm not enough, so I need to learn more, be more, get better at skilled." We all are ready to get started.

Mike Michalowicz (17:17):

Tell me about your own team. So, when you started, was it just you?

Amy Porterfield (17:20):

Just me.

Mike Michalowicz (17:21):

So, you're doing everything the technical?

Amy Porterfield (17:23):

Yes. For about... well, no. So, about two years, it was just me, but I would find contractors to help with...

Mike Michalowicz (17:29):

That's so smart.

Amy Porterfield (17:30):

I'm not techie at all, so I'm terrible with that. But then I got an assistant that helped me five hours a week, and I was terrified I wouldn't be able to pay her. And then little by little, but there's no badge of honor in my opinion of doing it on your own. You get there faster and more efficiently if you're willing to hire, it comes back to, "But you have to pay," and it's... I held money so tight, I was scared to use it, but when I started to is when the business exploded.

Mike Michalowicz (17:54):

How's your role shifted? So, rewinding, you're one person, you're having contractors now. I think you have 20, 30 people something like that?

Amy Porterfield (18:00):

Yes.

Mike Michalowicz (18:01):

That's a big shift in your role.

Amy Porterfield (18:02):

It is.

Mike Michalowicz (18:02):

So, how's Amy different today than you were then?

Amy Porterfield (18:06):

Earlier you mentioned the word confidence, and I said I had zero starting out, I believe that it starts with courage. Courage is a leap of faith. Confidence is I have a little bit of a track record, so I'm feeling pretty good. In the beginning you don't, and when you're starting anything new. So, I started to have a little courage to bring some people on, but I am a baby steps kind of girl. I did it very slowly. So, I have a team of 20 now, but 10 years ago it might've been 5. So, I've done it pretty slowly, but it has been game-changing.

Mike Michalowicz (18:34):

Do your roles or functions change, too? You have to have a retreat where you're rah-rah-ing your team, the way you interface and lead. Are you handling HR, payroll, stuff like that?

Amy Porterfield (18:44):

Yeah. So, it's become more complicated, for sure. Bigger team, more complications, but I also have people around me to help with that. So, I have a CEO, I have a CMO, so I'm not in the weeds of my business anymore, and I only manage one person. So, they do a lot of that, which is, that's where you want to get as an entrepreneur, where you're not always doing everything in the weeds.

Mike Michalowicz (19:06):

And tell me if you relate to this, when you start a business, you're compelled to do everything you have to. At a certain point, the job of an entrepreneur is to actually extract themselves from a business. That's what ownership is. It's not doing the work. We have a president, her name is Kelsey. She runs our operations. And then you can reinsert yourself in the business in a way that gives you joy, "I like to be the spokesperson."

Amy Porterfield (19:26):

Absolutely.

Mike Michalowicz (19:27):

Did you find a similar path?

Amy Porterfield (19:28):

Yes. Right now, that's happening. So, I have reinserted myself as the content director because I'm creating a new program, and I want to be very closely tied to it. So, I'll step in when I have a passion or I know I can make a difference, and then they love when I step out.

Mike Michalowicz (19:44):

That's so funny.

Amy Porterfield (19:44):

I probably make things more complicated.

Mike Michalowicz (19:47):

So, I'm going to go to another question. You came in here and you dropped the bomb. I'm like, "How's business?" You're like, "I just did a launch." I'm like, "Oh, amazing. You do them all the time." "This is my last one."

Amy Porterfield (19:55):

Yes.

Mike Michalowicz (19:56):

What?

Amy Porterfield (19:56):

I haven't really talked about this a lot.

Mike Michalowicz (19:58):

What?

Amy Porterfield (19:58):

So, for 16 years, I have been creating and launching digital courses. I got really good at it, and so I started teaching other people how to create and launch digital courses. So, this is my whole identity, and it's put me on the map. I wouldn't trade it for the world. It's given me my wealth and my space in the online marketing world. However, for the last few years, I had really been called to work with female entrepreneurs that have already started.

(20:25):

I work with a lot of beginners, just leaving their 9:00 to 5:00, just starting to build a business online, and I love them dearly, but I have evolved. As we do this for a long time, we've evolved as entrepreneurs, and I want to talk about the bigger things about what it means to be a female entrepreneur and making money. I love to talk about making money and what you want to do with that money. And so, when you're working with a beginner, that's harder to do.

(20:49):

So, one morning, I woke up and I thought, "I've never wanted a Mastermind. I never wanted to be the host of a bunch of million-dollar female business owners," but something just was on my heart. I don't know if it was just God calling me to say, "Go for it." But it was very clear. And so, I started a Mastermind of women making a million dollars or more over in a year time.

(21:10):

And that was, I loved it. And then I started another one of women around that 500k mark, wanting to make their first million. It's called the Milly Club. So, we started that, and now I have a new coaching coming out in January where it's the women around a 150, 200 looking to the hardest part, looking to break in.

Mike Michalowicz (21:27):

I love it.

Amy Porterfield (21:28):

So, because of this, there's an ascension model now, these three different coaching programs, I am going to retire my flagship program called Digital Course Academy. That has literally made me over $60 million.

Mike Michalowicz (21:41):

Wow.

Amy Porterfield (21:41):

So, it's been a really big part of my life, and I'm scared and I'm freaked out about it, and "Oh, my gosh, what if I let go of something that was what made me... what if this next thing doesn't..." But I'm like, "Bring it on. I'm ready."

Mike Michalowicz (21:54):

So, you're building the content, the structure of it?

Amy Porterfield (21:56):

Yes.

Mike Michalowicz (21:56):

You're also the spokesperson for the brand.

Amy Porterfield (21:58):

Very much. I'm the face of the brand. I do all the podcasts, all the videos.

Mike Michalowicz (22:02):

So, how's that going to work with a peer group that you're creating now? And that's my term. I don't know, are you calling a peer group?

Amy Porterfield (22:08):

Yes. Well, I just call it a coaching program with the community, but I will be bringing in coaches and experts, which I haven't done a lot of. So, this is going to be new to me, which is exciting because I'm learning something new for sure. But I don't always want to be the face of the business. And quite honestly, Mike, if I could do it over, I probably wouldn't have been from the get-go.

Mike Michalowicz (22:26):

Really?

Amy Porterfield (22:27):

Yeah. Businesses like mine are hard to sell, and I love the idea of especially women selling their businesses very few do. And if I'm not on, we're not on. If I'm not on that live webinar, we're not making money. And so, I think the smartest entrepreneurs have found a way to pull themselves out.

Mike Michalowicz (22:45):

100% agree.

Amy Porterfield (22:45):

I haven't found out how to do that yet.

Mike Michalowicz (22:47):

I haven't either. And I wonder when I reflect on myself, how much is ego? It's nice to be walking down airports like, "Oh, my God."

Amy Porterfield (22:53):

It totally is. I hate to admit it.

Mike Michalowicz (22:55):

Right?

Amy Porterfield (22:55):

Yes.

Mike Michalowicz (22:56):

And it also protects you because I can't come in... I can't clone your business at all because I'm not Amy.

Amy Porterfield (23:00):

It's true.

Mike Michalowicz (23:01):

But I can't leave the business, you can't leave the business. So, how do you think you're going to make that transition? How do you start attracting yourself?

Amy Porterfield (23:08):

I think the more I trust my coaches and the experts that are going be teaching the program, and put the ego aside, you're right. I think ego is one of the hardest things as an entrepreneur-

Mike Michalowicz (23:17):

Totally.

Amy Porterfield (23:18):

... as you get bigger and better. And so, if I could take that ego back and realize I'm not the only one who could do it this way, I think it'll make a big difference. It's going to be an exercise for me for sure, though.

Mike Michalowicz (23:28):

How do you know your program, the new one, is achieving your vision?

Amy Porterfield (23:33):

So, beyond all the metrics, we have a value in our company data into impact. So, data is everything to us. No decisions made without the data behind it. So, the data will show me in terms of numbers. And the second thing is the success that they shared, my students, when they start getting success and sharing it, I know we're doing something right, but also my team.

(23:52):

So, launching live as much as I've done it is taxing on a team. And I believe every business should learn how to live launch. But at a certain point, I think you got to be careful of the burnout on your team. When my team doesn't feel burnt out, I know that I'm doing something right.

Mike Michalowicz (24:10):

So, all the judgy judgies watching right now, "Amy's crazy. If I was Amy, here's what I would do, and I suspect they'd grow bigger and continue." When do you know it's time to pivot?

Amy Porterfield (24:21):

When I'm working with a group of people, and I know my heart's not fully in it, and I just caught myself one time. It was about a year ago that I'm like, "Oh, I'm phoning this in." And that freaked me out because people spend a lot of money to work with me, and that's not fair to them. So, this was about a year ago and I thought, "Okay, I'm going to launch this program again, but give it all my heart."

(24:41):

So, this last launch, they got all of me, but I knew this is it. And I laid in bed the morning that my cart was closing. So, we do a 10-day promo. The last day my cart was closing multi-million-dollar launch. It did great. And I thought, "Oh, I'm so excited to go to the next thing. I am so glad it's done."

(24:59):

And I thought, "Wait a second. I have to pay homage to what this program did for me and have gratitude. And it bought my land that we're building a house on. It allowed my husband to retire," Hobie's a retired firefighter, "And it allowed my son to go to a great college. So, I'm so grateful and I'm so ready."

Mike Michalowicz (25:19):

Amazing. My mind's blown with my heart's not in it and you recognize that. I have a little ritual, and I'm curious if you have something similar at the end of every year, around Christmastime, before New Year, I'll go into my office. We have a physical office still people come in, no one's there. We're closed. I'll lay on the floor just staring up, and I'll just reflect on the year is the weirdest.

Amy Porterfield (25:38):

Love this though. It's so important to stop for a second because as entrepreneurs, we're always looking forward, right?

Mike Michalowicz (25:44):

Right.

Amy Porterfield (25:45):

But being grateful for what got you there so important.

Mike Michalowicz (25:48):

Well, we achieved all this. So, do you have ritual or celebration to recognize how you've become self-made?

Amy Porterfield (25:54):

Yes. So, around that same time, that's my favorite time of year. Christmas is over, the New Year's not, and I love new beginnings. So, around that time, Michael Hyatt has a program, Best Year Ever, and I go through Best Year Ever and get to really reflect on everything that worked. And this hasn't been my most favorite year, 2025 is not my most favorite year. It's just a little wonky.

(26:16):

A lot of my students are struggling because the industry is really changing, AI, who knows what's going on with the government and the economy. So, it hasn't been my favorite, but I still can find the wins in it for sure. Just staying in the game and staying strong for my students is part of it, but it's so easy to overlook those.

Mike Michalowicz (26:33):

Does that cheerleader role still kick in every so often?

Amy Porterfield (26:35):

Absolutely. So, I do think that makes me a good teacher. That cheerleader in me will always be there. Don't ask me to do my moves, though, because I will impress you too much

Mike Michalowicz (26:44):

During our little B-roll segment. Maybe we got to do a little cheer squad.

Amy Porterfield (26:47):

It's not happening.

Mike Michalowicz (26:48):

How do you encourage people when they're down, particularly, you mentioned AI, it's confusing people minimally. It's devastating for some people because they are seeing their businesses go away. How do you cheer when the team is losing?

Amy Porterfield (27:04):

So, I've had a lot of that this year with my students just seeing things that used to work in my industry aren't working anymore. And so, they're doing the same things they've always done and now they're just really frustrated. And so, the way I have addressed it is twofold. Number one is reminding them that they are not alone. Because when you feel like you're the only one that your business isn't going well, you feel like you have failed. Funny enough, we're talking about this now. Did you happen to see what Donald Miller posted this morning on Instagram?

Mike Michalowicz (27:32):

No.

Amy Porterfield (27:33):

So, he was up at 4:00 a.m., and he was out on his porch and he was saying, "I haven't been able to sleep for the last few nights. I have some business challenges I'm working out, and this is the price you pay as an entrepreneur." And he said, "Nothing's wrong. I just have to work these out." And it's consumed me, and it's an unfortunate thing that happens as entrepreneurs, but it's the price we pay for all the amazing things we have in our lives. And he said that, and I'm like, "Thank you. Because I haven't been able to sleep the last few nights. This new program is scary to me, and I've got to work it out."

(28:04):

And when he said it, I wasn't alone anymore. Nothing's wrong with me. This is normal. So, I try to remind my students, "Hey, my peers are struggling. I haven't hit goals all year." There's certain promos I haven't hit. And right away they're like, "Ah." Their shoulders relax. So, that's the first thing I do. But the second thing I do is remind them it's a season. I've been in business 16 years. I know these seasons, they will come and they will go, they won't last. But if you believe that you're the only one going through it and it's never going to get better, you will give up. And so, that's what I have to remember. This is just a season.

Mike Michalowicz (28:37):

You said early on in our Lifeline exercise I threw over there, that you surround yourself with people that were not good. There were party animals back in the place, and that you had this realization. You moved on to a new group with Anthony Robbins, but now you're in a group that people you're supporting aren't necessarily the people who are experiencing what you're experiencing. They're in a different stage.

Amy Porterfield (28:56):

You're right.

Mike Michalowicz (28:57):

Have you found, or how do you find your tribe?

Amy Porterfield (28:59):

Oh, absolutely. So, if I'm supporting a lot of people that haven't gotten to where I'm at today, and that's why I'm their guide. I'm showing them the way I surround myself with a lot of people that are at my level or far beyond. So, men and women, really great friends of mine, but just sharing everything about our business and a little bit about personal even, it's a lifeline again, so I remember I'm not alone in this.

Mike Michalowicz (29:24):

I'm the same thing. I used to be in a group called EO Entrepreneurs Organizations. Similar format to what you're saying. It's groups of businesses that do a million dollars in revenue or more. And it is interesting. You no longer feel isolated. So, finding those peers was so significant for me. Before I go to my rapid-fire questions, I want to ask you, what has been the trade-off for you in becoming self-made?

Amy Porterfield (29:45):

That my husband doesn't always feel like a priority, and it's a big deal. So, Hobie is so understanding, so supportive. My biggest cheerleader. But there have been times in our marriage where he said, "I need to talk to you. I don't even know if you know I'm here right now," and it's right. I'm deep into it. I'm in a launch. I'm doing this.

(30:03):

So, we have gone through couples therapy that has absolutely changed that, but just thinking, there's not one day that I haven't felt that I wasn't his priority. So, it breaks my heart that I've done that to him, and we have a beautiful marriage. I'm so fortunate, but to know that that has happened a few times hurts me.

Mike Michalowicz (30:20):

Yeah, that's powerful. Hobie, I'm talking to you, if you're watching right now, I'm proud of you. We entrepreneurs need that in our lives. My wife does the same thing for me.

Amy Porterfield (30:28):

Oh, good.

Mike Michalowicz (30:29):

And she's called me out. For a time, she used to schedule meetings with me. That's the only thing you'd respond to. And I have a shame over that now.

Amy Porterfield (30:37):

Me too. Me too.

Mike Michalowicz (30:40):

I actually know it. I have a workaholism. I could always work. Someone once told me, "Oh, it's an aholism." Meaning it's an addiction. It's not healthy workaholism.

Amy Porterfield (30:48):

And it's true. And it's so hard, Mike though, because I feel like got us to where we are today, we have incredible businesses, incredible lives, but at the same time, yeah, we've hurt some people along the way.

Mike Michalowicz (31:02):

Where's my questions? Hold on.

Amy Porterfield (31:04):

Rapid-fire questions always make me nervous.

Mike Michalowicz (31:06):

Here we go.

Amy Porterfield (31:08):

Here we go.

Mike Michalowicz (31:08):

I got dust flying around. Hold on. I got... I'm buried under here. There's no time clock, but we will go quickly. Here it is. You get one do-over in life. What is it?

Amy Porterfield (31:17):

Ooh. I was going to say not taking the partnership, but I don't think I would be here today. All of that. I genuinely don't think I would do anything. I think everything happens for a reason, so I can't answer that one.

Mike Michalowicz (31:28):

Fair. You passed. So far, you're getting an A on your test.

Amy Porterfield (31:31):

Good.

Mike Michalowicz (31:31):

What's got you most excited right now?

Amy Porterfield (31:34):

My coaching program for women?

Mike Michalowicz (31:35):

I love it.

Amy Porterfield (31:35):

I can't wait.

Mike Michalowicz (31:36):

And is a peer-to-peer support group?

Amy Porterfield (31:38):

Yes. We're in it with them, and it's high-level. They've got to pay money to be there, but it will be a different experience for them than my courses.

Mike Michalowicz (31:45):

It's extraordinary. So far, you still have an A.

Amy Porterfield (31:47):

Good. I love getting A's.

Mike Michalowicz (31:50):

If you had to sum up your whole journey in one word, what would it be?

Amy Porterfield (31:54):

Tenacity.

Mike Michalowicz (31:55):

All right. Biggest lesson learned?

Amy Porterfield (31:58):

To trust myself, bet on myself.

Mike Michalowicz (32:02):

I wish every entrepreneur listening in would take that from this interview.

Amy Porterfield (32:05):

We know the best. We know ourselves. Just trust yourself doesn't always have to work out, but every action leads to your next best decision.

Mike Michalowicz (32:13):

And even if you trust yourself and it doesn't go the way you want, you have the gain of trusting yourself.

Amy Porterfield (32:20):

Yes. It's hugely powerful.

Mike Michalowicz (32:24):

You're crushing this. What are you most proud of?

Amy Porterfield (32:26):

I am most proud of my relationship with my husband and son.

Mike Michalowicz (32:32):

Last time you laughed at yourself?

Amy Porterfield (32:34):

Last time I laughed at myself, I was in the gym the other day and could not lift the weights. I thought I would because I was trying to compete with another one of my girlfriends who had heavier weights. It was a disaster, and finally, I had to just give up.

Mike Michalowicz (32:47):

Oh, that's so funny.

Amy Porterfield (32:48):

I have a very big competitive spirit.

Mike Michalowicz (32:49):

How often do you exercise?

Amy Porterfield (32:50):

Four times a week. And weights, though, I just do weights.

Mike Michalowicz (32:53):

That's amazing. More women should do weights, in my opinion.

Amy Porterfield (32:56):

For sure. Totally.

Mike Michalowicz (32:57):

Best thing for handling burnout?

Amy Porterfield (32:59):

This is such a good one. The best thing is to turn off the phone, which is the hardest thing.

Mike Michalowicz (33:06):

You can do that?

Amy Porterfield (33:07):

No, but I try. I really try. If you could just put the phone away. And my husband is asking me to do it a lot, so I guess I can do it. I do put it away, but it has to be in another room. It's like crack.

Mike Michalowicz (33:17):

Is there an app you're addicted to?

Amy Porterfield (33:18):

I really love TikTok, which is funny because I don't post on TikTok a lot. How about you? Do you have one that you love?

Mike Michalowicz (33:23):

I've turned them all off. TikTok, I noticed it was an addictive.

Amy Porterfield (33:26):

Very addictive.

Mike Michalowicz (33:28):

I play guitar, and I was scrolling, watching guitar lessons, and I looked up the clock and three hours had passed. I'm like, "No way." And I actually deleted the app on that spot.

Amy Porterfield (33:36):

Good for you. I've deleted it and put it back on.

Mike Michalowicz (33:38):

I get it. Biggest morale booster?

Amy Porterfield (33:42):

When I see my students hit a certain launch number is a very big deal to me. So, five figure, six figure, seven figures. I love it.

Mike Michalowicz (33:50):

What's your personal metric to success?

Amy Porterfield (33:53):

Forever, Mike, I would say what's in my bank account. I am really driven by that. However, I don't think that is healthy, and I think it got me going, but I think now I would say my mental health and my physical health, and my relationship with my husband, those are all just my measures of success.

Mike Michalowicz (34:11):

A+ on the test.

Amy Porterfield (34:12):

Because I don't want any of this if I don't have a great marriage, that's a big deal to me.

Mike Michalowicz (34:16):

Right?

Amy Porterfield (34:16):

Yeah.

Mike Michalowicz (34:17):

100% agree. You got an A+ on the test.

Amy Porterfield (34:18):

I love getting an A+. Thank you.

Mike Michalowicz (34:21):

This has been an amazing interview with you. Just the energy, I hope it comes across on the video and stuff. I'll tell you this, I'm seeing this throughout this podcast experience, good people are winning, and this gives me heart again. When I watch the news, actually, I don't pay attention to news at all.

Amy Porterfield (34:35):

Amen. No, yes.

Mike Michalowicz (34:37):

I love that you are leading us in this. I love that.

Amy Porterfield (34:40):

Thank you, friend.

Mike Michalowicz (34:40):

So, thank you for being a good person.

Amy Porterfield (34:41):

Thanks for having me.

Mike Michalowicz (34:42):

Thanks for listening to Becoming Self Made a Relay podcast. Follow the show to make sure you don't miss a single episode. And if you like what you hear, rate and review while you're at it. Becoming Self Made is produced by Relay in partnership with me, Mike Michalowicz, and Pod People.