Brian Scudamore (00:00):

If you want something, you got to go after it. But what really makes a difference is connecting with your why. If your why fits someone else's, why boom magic. If I can see a bright future and paint it and share that picture with others, come on. I don't know how we're going to get there, but I want to go there with you. I want to be a part of this.

Mike Michalowicz (00:18):

The biggest names in business didn't start out that way. These are the unfiltered stories of entrepreneurs who turned small business into big success and transformed themselves along the way. Because success isn't just about what you build, it's who you become. I'm Mike Michalowicz, and this is Becoming Self Made a podcast from Relay. And today's guest is Brian Scudamore, founder and CEO of one 800 junk. Brian Scudamore is the epitome of the saying, one man's trash is another man's treasure. What started out as an effort to pay his college tuition has now turned into the world's largest junk hauling business, a stint on Dragon's Den and a bestselling book, but it hasn't always been smooth hauling, so to speak. I sat down with Brian at one 800, got Junk's headquarters in Vancouver, and he's going to give us a window into the parts of his story. I don't often get told Brian Scudamore (01:12):

Mr. Ceo.

Mike Michalowicz (01:12):

Yeah, so good to see you. Yeah. So Brian, tell me what is 1-800-GOT-JUNK

Brian Scudamore (01:16):

1-800-GOT-JUNK is the world's largest junk removal company. It started with $700 in a beat up old pickup truck. Today we have over 3000 trucks, $700 million in revenue. We haul away old furniture, appliances, yard debris, renovation, refuse across Canada, the United States and Australia.

Mike Michalowicz (01:35):

And quiz me. What was the original name? Ask me. I think I remember. It was Rubbish Boys.

Brian Scudamore (01:39):

It was Rubbish boys. You got it.

Mike Michalowicz (01:41):

And

Brian Scudamore (01:41):

It was just me. So I actually, I was like, I have a vision for something bigger. Rubbish boys. There was going to be this.

Mike Michalowicz (01:48):

Oh, so it was rubbish, boy. And you just added an S, you painted it

Brian Scudamore (01:51):

On. Exactly.

Mike Michalowicz (01:52):

So what's the dirtiest filthiest junk you ever hauled away?

Brian Scudamore (01:55):

Yeah, so I mean, we've taken away a freezer full of salmon. Someone goes to a big fishing resort and catches so much salmon and they go away and realize a month later that their power, it was unplugged. Yeah.

Mike Michalowicz (02:09):

Oh my God

Brian Scudamore (02:09):

So you've got to take that freezer. There's no way to get that freezer into the truck with all the dead salmon inside. Oh my gosh. Without cleaning out the salmon first it was. No, not a pretty sight. That smells horrific. I bet. Yeah. But on the flip side of weird junk, we've had some cool things too where the greatest find of all time, I actually found in Vancouver, we were doing a job. I wasn't there, but our truck team members were, and they saw on the floorboard of some house what looked like money. And so they called the customer over and said, that looks like money. Customer was doing a reno. So they took a crowbar and jacked up the floorboards and they're like, it was laid throughout the whole floor to the point that they literally pulled up the floor in the entire house and found $400,000 in cash, but it was 1930 circulation bills, which calculated into today's dollars was $5.3 million hidden away. So truck team members, of course, got a healthy tip and the person renovating save $400,000 on their

Mike Michalowicz (03:11):

Renovation. Hey, it's Mike. Real quick here. This is our very first episode and there's something you got to know. I'm doing an exercise with every single guest called Lifeline. I want to explain it to you. The guests on the show will plot on a large poster board an X and y axis on the X axis five-year increments of their life and a Y axis, high and low points. Then we reflect on each five-year period and they share what was happening. Sometimes it's a high, sometimes it's a low, and if you haven't done this for yourself, I highly encourage you to do it with your friends or family or even do it by yourself. But what you'll see is your past is revealing your identity. Okay, here's Lifeline. So here's what I like you to do. You know how to do the lifeline? Have you ever?

Brian Scudamore (03:53):

Yeah, I haven't done one for a long time and I certainly haven't done one on camera.

Mike Michalowicz (03:57):

There you go. So just draw the initial chart, which is, I'll do that part for us, and then you're going to do it. So it looks like this. This is the high and then this is the low, and what I want you to do is maybe in five or 10 year increments, just highlight some of the highs or lows that you've had. The big ones perhaps before 1-800-GOT-JUNK and then after. Okay, so I'm going to put this up here so we can look at together simultaneously. Tell me about your childhood. What's this about, Brian?

Brian Scudamore (04:41):

Yeah, so born in San Francisco. My mother had me at 18 years old. She remarried, married two young, remarried at 27, I guess. And so those first eight years of my life, I went from school to school. I went from San Francisco. She remarried my dad, who is a liver transplant surgeon in Canada. So we moved to Canada at about seven years old, which is about here. And I was bullied. I had a bull cut, I had buck teeth, a big gap between my buck teeth. I had no self-confidence and I was the loud mouth class clown to try and get attention, and that's all I ever did was try to get attention. I didn't feel loved accepted. Oh, interesting. I didn't have any siblings. I didn't have a lot of friends. They came and went and it was all a factor really of my ADHD,

(05:32):

Which nobody talked about then. Now we've all apparently got it. We swiped through all our devices, but I had it so bad that I couldn't focus in school. And when I look at all my childhood report cards and Brian's smart, if only he could apply himself, Brian's a disruptor and not in the entrepreneurial term way. Brian messes around and doesn't listen and doesn't focus. I went to 14 schools from kindergarten through to the end of university, and the only diploma I received was kindergarten. And I don't say that to be funny. It's true. I didn't graduate from high school. I was one course short of graduating. I'm just like, I can't do this. And I quit school. I talked my way into community college. All my friends were going to university and really good ones, and I felt fomo. I was totally left out from the crowd. I'm like, I have to go to university,

(06:25):

But I don't have a high school diploma. So I had to talk my way in and my parents weren't going to give me the money for it, so I had to come up with it myself. It was a tight summer job market, and really this is where I sort of dropped out of school and why it's sort of mid versus a low is it was somewhat freeing to me that I'm making my own decisions now, even though it's a scary one. So I drop out of school, I'm in a McDonald's drive through. I see a beat-up, pulled pickup truck in front of me, plywood side built up. It said Mark's hauling on the side, and I'm like, I'm going to go buy a truck. That's how I'm going to pay for my business. I get out there and I go buy a truck for $700, few hundred on flyers and business cards. I start driving down alleys and laneways. I've got a business.

Mike Michalowicz (07:08):

So you don't have a formation like an LLC or something?

Brian Scudamore (07:11):

Nothing. It was just a sole proprietor. It was just me. And I hired a buddy from high school, Dave Snyderman, who was my first employee, but this was where I started the business and now it's like I can do something. I don't have to worry about all the kids in the playground wanting to beat the crap out of me.

Mike Michalowicz (07:27):

And you were moving schools Brian constantly.

Brian Scudamore (07:30):

And so I was always thrown into a new school, a new environment, and I didn't understand what that was going to be like and how hard it would be. So never fitting in. And this is interesting, I joined an organization that you and I both adore, the entrepreneur organization. They called it YEO, the Young Entrepreneur Organization. Now as we get some gray, they remove the Y. So the EO entrepreneur organization, I joined in 96 when I was 26 years old, and that was the first time I'm like, oh my gosh, I found my tribe. I found my people.

Mike Michalowicz (08:01):

How does one know they found their tribe? Or how do you go out about finding your tribe?

Brian Scudamore (08:05):

I think it was by accident that I found my tribe, but it is that whole birds of a feather flock together. I joined EO and instantly I'm like, these are my people. Now what's interesting though is it was only a year or so after I went and joined eo, and then I'm comparing myself to others, which I don't recommend people do. It's not a good thing. It's not healthy. They had bigger businesses than me, much more glamorous than junk removal and garbage. People had bigger visions, they had the money and they had the education. So I immediately started to feel like crap here.

Mike Michalowicz (08:38):

Okay, so this is just a comparative thing. Something actually happened. Was there an event?

Brian Scudamore (08:43):

What happened is I'd built a million dollar business over eight years. I felt great about that, but I suddenly took a major drop off a cliff because I wasn't enjoying my business. I didn't have confidence in myself anymore.

(08:59):

I'm around my tribe, but I'm like, I don't know. I don't have the education, I don't have the money. I don't know if I can build this. I didn't have my own personal car. My forum used to bug me. They're like, how come you don't have a cell phone? And why don't you own a car other than a junk truck? I was trying to manage costs, and I would go on a date driving my rubbish truck. That's amazing. I know, but it was like that's the way I had to roll. But when I showed up to my first forum meeting to meet these guys, they were like, I don't know about this. This guy's in this old beat up garbage truck. Really?

Mike Michalowicz (09:31):

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that so interesting? I think today you'd garner more respect from the entrepreneurs doing that than anything.

Brian Scudamore (09:39):

I've learned to not care what people think about that sort of stuff, because I know money doesn't buy happiness. It doesn't for me, what buys happiness is growth and friendship and opportunities and making a difference and how we treat our people. So the possessions don't matter.

Mike Michalowicz (09:53):

But there was a gutsy thing you did, and I don't remember where it was. You fired the entire company.

Brian Scudamore (09:59):

Yeah. So that happened here. Let's do a little like this is growing zero to a million, right?

Mike Michalowicz (10:04):

Yeah.

Brian Scudamore (10:05):

1 million. But what happened here was definitely a challenge. Five years in and then back up.

Mike Michalowicz (10:12):

I want to say this may be one of the greatest moments and decisions that got the company to where it is today, in my opinion. Is it what happened? Give me the details.

Brian Scudamore (10:21):

Five years into my business, I fired my entire company. I didn't keep the person answering the phones, I didn't keep anybody. And the reason being is we're a company with no private offices. Back then we had one private office that I would never use, but I started hiding out there because I didn't enjoy my team. I wasn't having fun in my business. And when I got introspective to find out why not, I realized I don't have the right people for me.

(10:50):

These aren't people I enjoy. They were negative glass, half empty. They didn't see a bright future. It was just a job. Lots of complaints. So I took ownership, and on this day I literally let them all go. I sat down and I said, I'm sorry, two words that I owned and I felt it. Team meeting 11 people, one bad apple spoils a whole bunch. There were nine sort of bad apples. The other two maybe I could have saved, but I'm like, I'm going to clean the slate. So I went from five trucks down to just the one that I could drive, answering the customer calls and the phone while I'm hauling junk canceling customer appointments like crazy, rebuilding the business to then learn that day. It's all about people, finding the right people and treating them. So I had to get out there and start to create an energy of finding the right people, people that I wanted to treat, like friends and family and help with their future and that they saw the world that I saw.

Mike Michalowicz (11:44):

You had a business approaching a million dollars in revenue. You had 11 people and you say, I'm going to start anew. What was their reaction? Were they pissed?

Brian Scudamore (11:51):

It was funny. It's interesting. I mean, it's hard to go back that long and really remember what it was like, but I think I remember that there was a level of empathy, frustration that they were losing their jobs, but they appreciated that I owned it. I said, Hey guys, I'm sorry. I have not given you the love and support you've needed. I have not treated you with the respect that you deserve. I have not created a vision for you to thrive in my company and I need to start again. I don't know how else to do it. And so I did. I ripped off the bandaid and started again.

Mike Michalowicz (12:26):

Has this story been about building friendships?

Brian Scudamore (12:29):

Yeah. A lot of it's been having the right life partner, my wife, and having a family with three kids and having friends and having community. It was hard out there. When you say entrepreneurship is lonely, lonely at the top. I mean a lot of loneliness here until I discover eo. But then when I compare myself to others and go, oh my gosh, what is going on here? This was a big turning point here. I created the painted picture. I remember the story. Tell me about it. I'm in eo and I learned that if you're trying to solve a problem, go to a creative place. My problem is I'm comparing myself to others. I'm not enjoying my business as much and I'm feeling like I don't have what it takes, maybe myself or I might not even have the right business idea. So I go to Bowen Island like an hour right behind you. My parents have this summer cottage on the water.

(13:21):

I go sit on their dock and I pull out a sheet of paper inspired by, go to a creative place. My mental state is, and I'm in this doom loop of don't have the money, don't have the talent, don't have the idea, look at everybody else. And so I'm feeling kind of depressed and down, but I'm like, okay, Brian, shift the narrative here. Create a brighter future. What could it look like if only I could imagine? So I take this sheet, I write one page, flip it over the other page, and I swear to God, five years later, that painted picture happened. I never changed a word. And what I did is I went from a doom loop of not where do we want to go, but where will I go? What can I see? And I went, I got chills after I wrote it, I read this thing and I'm like, I don't need to compare myself to others. I need to compare myself to this vision that I'm trying to crystal ball. I said, we'd be in the top 30 metropolitan centers by the end of 2003. This was five years because at Vancouver was ranked the 30th biggest city in North America.

(14:22):

So every city bigger, we can make that happen. I said, we'd be the FedEx of junk removal, clean, shiny trucks, friendly, uniformed drivers on time, service upfront rates. And I said, we'd be on the Oprah Winfrey show,

Mike Michalowicz (14:33):

Which is right there,

Brian Scudamore (14:34):

Which is right there. So EO compare myself, wow, I feel like crap. Write a painted picture that imagines a bright future, including things like Oprah. And it happened. So this highlight here, this high was not really about Oprah. It was the symbolic nature of if I can see a bright future and paint it and share that picture with others, I took the painted picture and shared it with my team, and about half the people said, Brian, what are you smoke in here? Some hope dope. There's no way this is going to happen. 30 metros, Oprah, come on. The other part said, I don't know how we're going to get there, Brian, but I want to go there with you. I want to be a part of this. So we had this community, this company family that said, we're going to get there. And Oprah proved that we could. We had 35 million viewers watching our story. I'm on stage with Oprah just going, oh my gosh, what is this proof that if you imagine a bright future, you never know, it might just happen. 2006. We go from 2 million around after EO to 106 million for one 800 got chunk under the leadership of Cameron Harold.

Mike Michalowicz (15:42):

Okay, I got to ask you about that. What does it feel like though? So a million dollar business is remarkable. A hundred million dollar business is unbelievable.

Brian Scudamore (15:50):

I can imagine in retail, the Christmas season where it's so chaotic, right? That's the busy 50% of your revenues combined into that one month.

(15:59):

As the business went from 2 million to 106, it felt like every day was Christmas. It was just busy and chaotic. And I realized Cameron Harald, who was also an EO member who was in my forum group who said he'd never work for me is what he said. I invited him into the business as a consultant. I had some challenges to fix in terms of understanding growth, and he fell in love with the business and in us working together. So we became this two in the box, two heads better than one, but we were both a DHD ready, fire, aim types or fire ready aim types, and we started making mistakes. And when we got to a hundred million in revenue, things started to kind of collapse a bit. The culture was getting worn and stressed. People were looking at us with less confidence. You guys dunno what you're doing. You're wasting money. You're spending money in areas that isn't paying off and that we really didn't know how to lead a hundred million dollars business

(16:56):

And they were right. So I had to take my best friend at the time, I was the best man in Cameron's wedding and I had to sit him down over breakfast and say, buddy, we're done. This isn't working. And I blindsided him, which I regret. Looking back, I had a board that helped me see that or help drive me to the, we need to protect the rest of the company by keeping this a secret from him until we've got all the paperwork and we're ready. But we had such a good friendship that I should have been able to say, Hey, maybe this isn't working. Maybe we need to change things up a bit. So I fired Cameron. Now, fortunately, he and I are great buddies today. I mean, took a couple of years probably to heal that, but he would agree he wasn't the right person to take it beyond a hundred million and nor was I.

Mike Michalowicz (17:46):

But that's so courageous today, 700 million in revenue. Is it because of that hard decision? Not alone, but did you need new leadership? And how do you know when someone who founded a business isn't the right person to lead the business, so to speak?

Brian Scudamore (18:03):

Yeah, it was at a hundred million dollars in revenue, you need to order systems. You can't be scrambling with your head cut off like a chicken running around. It just doesn't work. And that's how we lived. And so we had to take it down a thousand and go, okay, hold on. Let's bring on, let me bring on the right person who can help us scale to that next level. There are life cycles of companies that we all go through if we're lucky. And a million is the hardest on the spectrum of getting to a billion because you're figuring it out. You don't know if you have a business, you don't know what kind of people to hire. You can't necessarily afford these great people 10 million. You start to get a bit of momentum, you start to get some confidence and things start to grow a little bit.

(18:48):

You start to realize you need systems and processes. So 10 million is hard, but not as hard as a million. It gets a bit easier at a hundred, but you're still just chaos. The easiest is a billion. And as a $700 million business today, I focus as the leader and I would say it's the easiest. I'm in my areas of unique ability. I do things I love, I do things I'm great at, and I've got a team of people that are experts in their areas and we figured out the systems on how to stay tight and communicate and work together. So it is easier. I mean, it took us eight years to get to a million in revenue. We will do a million in revenue by 10:00 AM this morning for one day. So it's that momentum. But that wouldn't be possible if I didn't find and keep the right people and have them trust in me at the same time.

(19:39):

So we go back to Cameron Harold, he wasn't the right guy. I had to make that courageous decision and I had to go find the right person. So who do I go find an ex Starbucks, CEO, who I thought, what a great brand. Like, oh my gosh, this isn't going to be unbelievable. What happened was we almost bankrupted the company together in those 14 months. I take ownership, I brought this person on the financial meltdown of 2007, 2008 did not have horrible times. Yeah, we went from 125 million to 85 million, 80 million in a year, and we were overspending and I almost lost the business. This person, this Starbucks person was actually trying to raise private equity and I wasn't completely in the loop on it all, and it made it very difficult. And I was like, I'm losing control of my business. There's a new leadership team that I'm not really connected with, and I abdicated the growth of the business.

Mike Michalowicz (20:34):

That may be the key is abdication. So you have to reinsert yourself, I presume. When you abdicate, how do you do it? Is it another kind of meeting like you had with Cameron, A cup of coffee. I got bad news type thing.

Brian Scudamore (20:48):

Yeah. So this is the big low here.

Mike Michalowicz (20:50):

So this isn't too long ago. This is 15 years ago,

Brian Scudamore (20:52):

Correct. The company just crashes. This big event happened. I lose a ton of employees after abdicating and I come step back in, I get rid of the CEO or the COO, and I get rid of this person's entire team. I can't afford them. We're almost bankrupt. I got to hunker down.

Mike Michalowicz (21:09):

So that person came in with how many other people,

Brian Scudamore (21:11):

This person brought in people.

Mike Michalowicz (21:13):

So you hired not a person, a tribe and a culture, a different culture,

Brian Scudamore (21:17):

Different culture of professional management, which we needed, but I needed professional management with a leader who believed in me at the same time. And I don't think this leader believed in me as an entrepreneur. And so my confidence was back to being a kid where I'm like, how come I'm in my own company and I feel like an alien? So I get rid of this person. Then the whole team, I elevate middle management up and I say, I can't tell you why this has happened, but this has happened. This is the decision I made. People thought it was crazy, was why I couldn't really explain it. They didn't know that I saw what I saw in this person and that it wasn't working and how bad the finances were. And I said, I need you to be here with me and believe in me, and I'm going to give you all the reasons to believe, but let's go. I didn't lose a person for years. They stuck with me,

(22:09):

Thankfully. And they believed it was the right decision because we started to grow again. And just as we're starting to grow again, I go find the right president slash COO for me. I learned this time around, I had the wrong person for me and one miss hire. Think of those 11 when I fired the whole company. This is one hire in the company and it started to poison the rest of the business. So when I had to go find the right person, I said, what am I looking for this time around? First and foremost, someone who wants to be a partner, that will be a partner with a founder, even if not financially, just in spirit to say, we are too in the box. We are going to make this happen together like a yin and yang. And I took a sheet of paper and I wrote a list, all the things on one side that I was great at that I love to do.

Mike Michalowicz (22:58):

Give me sampling of that

Brian Scudamore (23:00):

Vision, sales and marketing ideas, creative juice into the business, spokeperson, spokesperson, storyteller. Things that I didn't like were reviewing the financials, managing the money, hiring, building a team, developing a team, interviewing

Mike Michalowicz (23:16):

With Mike 

Brian Scudamore (23:17):

No, no, that's good. I'd put that on the side.

(23:20):

So I took that list and I said, of all the things I'm bad at that I don't like to do, what am I going to do to find someone who can do those? And I flew on planes, 75 different interviews of potential presidents across Canada and the us and I found one person that my network said three different people had said, the painted picture vision of who you're looking for is Eric Church. And so Eric was one of those 75 and became the guy. And it's been 14 years. We've never had a fight. We debate, we have passionate discussions, but we work so well together in driving this business forward that since Eric's come in, he's seven folded or we have the business in terms of revenue.

Mike Michalowicz  (24:02):

Wow.

Brian Scudamore (24:02):

It's just amazing. I mean, I've been really lucky with Eric to find not only a great friend there, but a great partner who's helped us grow. And when I can sit down and realize it's not lonely at the top because Eric's there,

Mike Michalowicz (24:15):

That's phenomenal. If you could look back to this child and give some lessons or advice, anything you would say back to little Brian Buckoo Brian.

Brian Scudamore (24:25):

So people often ask me in interviews, what would you do differently? And I always say nothing. I needed learn. We are to learn the lessons that I learned. I needed to get kicked out of so many schools for skipping and being a bad kid. I needed to fire my entire company to get to where we are now. We win awards for best workplaces in all sorts of different countries and the culture and all this stuff. And so I'm proud of that. But that came from a school of hard knocks of us figuring this stuff out, making mistakes. So advice to Buckoo, greasy hair, bull cut hair. Brian was probably just be patient, just trust you're going to make some mistakes and have some failures. And that's good

Mike Michalowicz (25:10):

Because

Brian Scudamore (25:10):

That's how we learned.

Mike Michalowicz (25:11):

I think you and I both read the same book, the Blue Ocean strategy, and when you started one HRA got junk, it was pretty much a blue ocean. It was a mom and pop business only, but people saw your success. And so the duplicates, the R ds rip off and duplicate folks come in. Is it a red ocean now? How do you feel about folks that come in and copy what you're doing? How do you compete?

Brian Scudamore (25:35):

No, I think that we created an industry. We did. It was called rubbish removal. We changed it to junk removal and we inspired other competitors. One was in here yesterday, not yesterday, last week, the largest junk removal company in New Zealand. He flew out from New Zealand to spend 45 minutes with me asking me questions.

Mike Michalowicz (25:52):

And you're willing to meet with someone like

Brian Scudamore (25:54):

That? Yeah, he's an EOer. And he's like, are you sure you're willing to meet? We openly exchanged information and he'll find it otherwise, right? Why not? Why not be open and why not make some friends along the way in the industry? And so I think we inspired an industry and it hasn't become a red ocean because we've just stayed on top with trying to do the best we possibly can for the customer, making it easy for our customers and our people. And the bar is high, and so people haven't been able to compete in the same way. And when we find people doing things better, we try and adopt that.

Mike Michalowicz (26:28):

But what if Mr. New Zealand opens 1-800-GOT-MORE junk. I mean, he goes right after the jugular. I know some of your competitors have, because I know of them,

Brian Scudamore (26:38):

Of course.

Mike Michalowicz (26:39):

Do you still invite them in the space? How do you mentally cope with that?

Brian Scudamore (26:42):

I think the W you No versus the W. You don't keep your enemies closer, right? I mean, I don't have a lot of enemies in the world, but I say competitors. Yeah, come on in, check this place out.

Mike Michalowicz (26:53):

If someone said you wouldn't believe Brian is what would be the fill in the blank,

Brian Scudamore (26:59):

Probably you wouldn't believe how dis focused Brian can be.

Mike Michalowicz (27:03):

Yeah, I wouldn't believe that at all.

Brian Scudamore (27:04):

Yeah, I can sit down in an interview for an hour and just be fully in this conversation, but it's hard for me. It's all the times that I'm in a meeting, what people wouldn't know about Brian, maybe my close employees and partners here would, but when I sit down in a meeting, like 90% of that meeting, I'm not there. It's hard. I'm thinking of other ideas, I'm thinking of other things and distracted. It is really hard for me to narrow and stay focused. And so I don't do well in meetings.

Mike Michalowicz (27:35):

If someone asked me, I would say, you wouldn't know that Brian is an introvert, and here's my, you're so extroverted. You're out there. You have your television show, dragons Den, which I want to hear about. But when we go to our annual meetup, there's the 60 or now 80 of us in that room. Is that a fair assessment? You're an introvert that's bringing about extroversion.

Brian Scudamore (27:57):

And before I answer, you're an introvert too, right? Yeah, totally. So it's interesting because people, both you and I would think like, oh, we're all, let's get attention, have fun, be the life of the party. I can be that and have fun, but then I get tired.

Mike Michalowicz (28:10):

Yeah, me too

Brian Scudamore (28:10):

Mentally. Yeah, I understand that about you. And I pull away and I'm like, oh, I can't do this anymore. So that's where I'm an introvert is I need to pull back and recharge. I can't do it for too long. I don't like to be the center of attention. I get that my job puts me at the center of attention, but I don't want Dragon's Den, I know makes an impact being on a platform to talk about entrepreneurship, but to sit there for 12 days in a row, filming the entire season, a hundred pitches for 10 hours a day, it is the hardest thing for someone who's A-D-H-D-I do want to ask

Mike Michalowicz (28:50):

About Dragons Den. What's that experience like being on television? Who are the entrepreneurs you're serving? Tell me about that. How'd you get invited in?

Brian Scudamore (28:58):

Yeah, so I got invited in the first season and I didn't know what it was going to become. I didn't know what being a dragon meant. When I got in, I lost it to the person that ultimately got the role. And I'm like, okay. But once the show ramped up and it became a massive thing, I'm like, oh, missed an opportunity. So I was asked to audition again. They called back and they're like, Nope, it's not for you. They picked someone else. I'm like, oh man. Back then, it probably would've killed my business if I tried to do Dragons Den and the business. I didn't even have any money to invest in other businesses. So thank goodness it didn't happen. And then two years ago, they called me again. So I fly out to Toronto, there's 19 other dragons, and I'm like, I don't have a chance. I do not have a chance. And so I ended up going home that day and then waited months, and I'm like, it's just not going to happen. And it did. It happened. I was blown away. They said, I just filled the perfect hole. They were looking to Phil, and the timing was right.

Mike Michalowicz (30:01):

What was the hole? A nice genuine guy was that

Brian Scudamore (30:04):

Finally Robert, back to Robert Vic. So I called him up closer to, I hadn't heard what was happening and whether or not I'm getting it, and Robert was one of the dragons, and he knew all the team, and I said, is there anything you can do to help? He goes, why do you want to do this? And I said, I want to do it because make an impact. I love Canadian entrepreneurship. I love entrepreneurship in general, and it is the biggest platform I can think of to spread the love and passion I have for this amazing career choice. I want to do it. I want to help people. I want to learn next level about how to invest. He's like, Brian, you have to follow up and tell them that. You have to tell them that this is why you really want this. Interesting. And I did. And I think somehow that

Mike Michalowicz (30:49):

Translated, there's no question about it.

Brian Scudamore (30:51):

And so I'm like, okay. And so I got chills. It was something that if I didn't make that call, it might not have happened. And as entrepreneurs, it's trust your instincts. Follow up, follow up. Nothing happens. On the first time, dragons Den took three times. Oprah took over a year for us to pitch and pitch and pitch and pitch. Anything big that's happened in the world. We were on the Ellen DeGeneres show, I think she said no. Something like 19 times. I mean, it was crazy, right? So if you want something, you got to go after it. But what really makes a difference is connecting with your why. If your why fits someone else's, why boom magic.

Mike Michalowicz (31:28):

Yeah, no, why you're doing it. And connect with the right people. Well, let's talk about the final day. We only got 75. I hope for you it's 150 or whatever number you choose. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. But when that number comes, what do you want people saying about Brian Scudamore?

Brian Scudamore (31:42):

I have often said make meaning, not just money. Of course, you got to make money as a business to grow. I mean, if this business wasn't making money consistently, we would have to, if we couldn't figure it out, we'd have to shut it down. I mean, that's life. Yes, you need to make money. But meaning I think is more important. When somebody has worked here and been inspired to go to another company or start their own company and do greatness, that's awesome. This is a stop along the way of their journey or while they're here for as long as they can be here, like an Eric, he's always said, this will be the last job he ever has. And I believe it, right? When you find a place you can call home that you're making a difference. Making meaning that's what matters. And who said that? Companies can't make meaning they can. They create better lives and workplaces. They develop people. They help you be better leaders, better people. And we contribute a service that makes space for possibilities in people's lives. Living the dream. Man more.

Mike Michalowicz (32:43):

Absolute pleasure, brother. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Becoming Self-Made a Relay podcast. Follow the show to make sure you don't miss a single episode. And if you like what you hear, rate and review while you're at it. Becoming Self-Made is produced by Relay Financial, in partnership with me, Mike Michalowicz and Pod People.